Episode 383: Mike Dudas, 6th Man Ventures – Investing in Web3 & The Metaverse While Launching LinksDAO
Guest: Mike Dudas is the founder and General Partner of 6th Man Ventures, a VC firm focused on investing in Web3 and the metaverse. He recently helped launch LinksDAO, which raised over $10 million in less than 48 hours and is creating the modern golf & leisure club. Previously, he worked at Disney, Google, and Venmo with growth and business development.
Date Recorded: 1/12/2022 | Run-Time: 1:02:38
Summary: In today’s episode, we have a primer on Web3 from someone who’s deploying over $100 million into the space over the next few years. We start with an overview of stablecoins and their role in Web3. Then we get into NFTs and how they relate to DAO’s – decentralized autonomous organizations. We even hear how Mike helped launch LinksDAO, which raised over $10 million in 48 hours with the goal of creating one of the world’s greatest golf clubs.
As we wind down, we hear about some existing portfolio names and why Mike is bullish on the metaverse. Mike’s media and fintech experience at Disney, Google, YouTube & Venmo gives him a unique perspective on Web3 and the metaverse.
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Links from the Episode:
- 0:39 – Intro
- 1:24 – Welcome to our guest, Mike Dudas
- 2:29 – Early career at Disney, Google and Venmo
- 9:14 – Working for Paxos
- 12:30 – Overview of Web3
- 15:49 – Overview of stablecoins & their importance
- 25:45 – Overview of NFTs
- 29:36 – Mike’s involvement with LinksDAO
- 40:20 – The possibility of a DAO buying a professional sports team
- 45:45 – The focus of his firm, 6th Man Ventures
- 49:25 – Some cool companies he’s invested in
- 55:23 – The biggest thing he wants to see come to fruition in 2022
- 57:59 – Learn more about Mike; Twitter @mdudas; 6thman.ventures
Transcript of Episode 383:
Welcome Message: Welcome to “The Meb Faber Show,” where the focus is on helping you grow and preserve your wealth. Join us as we discuss the craft of investing and uncover new and profitable ideas, all to help you grow wealthier and wiser. Better investing starts here.
Disclaimer: Meb Faber is the co-founder and chief investment officer at Cambria Investment Management. Due to industry regulations, he will not discuss any of Cambria’s funds on this podcast. All opinions expressed by podcast participants are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of Cambria Investment Management or its affiliates. For more information, visit cambriainvestments.com.
Meb: What’s up, friends? We got a great show today. Our guest is the founder and general partner of 6th Man Ventures, focusing on investing in web3 infrastructure and the metaverse. In today’s show, we have a primer on web3 from someone who will be deploying over 100 million bucks into the space over the next few years. We start with an overview of stablecoins and their role on web3. Then we get into NFTs and how they relate to DAOs, decentralized autonomous organizations. We even hear how our guest helped launch LinksDAO, which raised over 10 million bucks in 48 hours, with the goal – creating one of the world’s greatest golf clubs. As we wind down, we hear about some existing portfolio names and why he’s bullish on the metaverse. Please enjoy this episode, with 6th Man Ventures’ Mike Dudas.
Meb: Mike, welcome to the show.
Mike: Thank you, sir. Pleasure to be here. Appreciate the invite.
Meb: Where do we find you today?
Mike: I am in the great state of New York, in the greatest city of New York. How about yourself?
Meb: Los Angeles. It’s a balmy 75 degrees in January, which I used to complain about. I don’t anymore. I miss New York though. It gives the boots-on-the-ground vibe. What’s it like right there? I need to get back.
Mike: It’s a tough month. New York was hopping. Over the summer, I mean, it was the place to be, particularly for folks in the crypto space like me. Fall was incredible, was warm and normal, just absolutely electric. And then omicron came and just sort of shut everything down over the last couple of weeks. And then the cold came. So now I wish I was in L.A., Miami, or all the places that many of my friends have fled to over the past couple of years. But we still love it, and New York folks, as you know, are die-hards, and we’re going to get through this.
Meb: Well, you’re certainly welcome to come visit anytime. We’ll be here. We’ll host you.
Mike: That’s the plan. I’ve got lots of travel planned. I think this next couple of weeks, not, but late February, getting rolling, getting out of town.
Meb: All right. So we’re going to go deep into crypto and DAO, and everything. I feel like we should start a little bit with your background, because you are a long-time vet of sort of traditional media FinTech world. You got your start at Disney. Was this like dressed up as Goofy running around Disneyland? What were you doing?
Mike: Yeah, that’s what most of my friends thought, but actually, I was as close to a suit as you could be. So I was working in that…there’s this, like, legendary, for better or worse, group called corporate strategic planning that was run by Kevin Meyer and a guy named Peter Murphy, Tom Murphy before that, and it was this group under Michael Eisner and then under Bob Iger, that basically worked with the business units on their strategic planning, corporate development M&A, high-level strategy, and then worked on a lot of the big external deals we did. So I worked in the cable and broadcasting group, and I was basically an Excel spreadsheet jockey, working on our MBA rights deal for ABC and ESPN from 2002 to 2008. Comcast tried to buy us while I was there from 2001 to 2004, so presenting our fair market value to the board to avoid a hostile takeover. All kinds of exciting things, basically being right in the belly of the beast, much better than being a banker, in my mind, because you’re effectively doing the banking function but directly inside of a company.
Meb: What was the next stop? So you said, “All right, I’ve had enough of this Walt’s world.” You went then Google, is that right, or Venmo? Where were you?
Mike: Unwinding way. So, yeah, I’m 42. I like to say I’m a junior boomer.
Meb: I’m going to steal that. I like that. Boomer in training.
Mike: I’m a crypto boomer, and then everywhere else, I’m sort of a junior boomer. The 2004 to 2009 period was kind of a winding way, but I lost a couple of years to business school. I had a lot of fun, but…
Mike: I went to Kellogg. And, look, it’s a wonderful school, but for me, it was a little bit more of the same because I’d been an econ and business major in college. But I had fun, met incredible people who I still do business with. And then I moved to New York in 2007. So I’d grown up in Connecticut. I’d look to the big city. I’m a fan of all the worst sports teams in the world, the Jets, the Mets, the Knicks. So I had never lived in the city and worked in tech. So in 2007, joined a startup backed by Fred Wilson at Union Square Ventures and Bank Capital, online music startup, didn’t go anywhere but met incredible people. Then I ended up at YouTube in 2009. So Google, at the time, was much, much smaller than it is today. And spent a year working on YouTube, and they sort of let folks at that time move into different groups if they were doing interesting work and doing a good job. So I was fortunate enough to be really, really early on the Google Wallet team, which is now Google Pay.
Meb: Nice. And then, one day, you were just hanging out on Reddit and said, “Wait a minute, what’s this crypto thing going on over here?” Was that the next step in the evolution, or what happened next?
Mike: Yeah. So since I’m, again, a boomer, it didn’t happen quite that fast. Even though today, people who are, like, 18 are building, like, the most exciting crypto protocols and primitives, it took me a lot longer to find it. So worked for three years at Google Pay and realized it was going to take a decade for that product to reach maturation. So I moved to Venmo when Venmo had 30,000 users and was owned by Braintree at the time, which is sort of the original predecessor of Stripe. Stripe really executed incredibly well in payments and a few lines of code. Ethos, over the past decade. Braintree was doing a great job, and still does. Anyway, with Uber and Airbnb as our customers, they were contemplating new innovative ways of accepting payments, and so while I was there, we talked with Coinbase about Bitcoin payments. So this was when the cost of the Bitcoin network was much lower, and the idea was that you’d have very low cost, always-on, nearly free global payments. In the meantime, PayPal bought Braintree. Venmo shelved that plan. It was a great idea to shelve it. We were actually acquired by David Marcus, who later went on to do some interesting things at Facebook, with Novi, but he was really early to seeing the promise of mobile payments. A brilliant acquisition for PayPal that I think probably added $100-billion-plus in market cap to that company. So I bought Bitcoin then. I was, like, “Wow, this thing is amazing, always-on, censorship resisting, global network payments. Amazing. Sign me up.” And I kind of held and didn’t do much with it for about four years. Started a traditional company called Button in the mobile commerce space, venture capital-backed here in New York.
And then we were having our second kid. I was out on paternity leave. It was late 2017. I’m seeing Ethereum was mooning, Bitcoin’s mooning. You’re seeing all these ICOs happen. And my friends, my normal friends, the normies, started asking, “Hey, Dudas. I know you were early to crypto. I did Bitcoin. What should I be doing?” And I jumped into Telegram chats, and I jumped into WhatsApp and Slack. And next thing you knew, I was, like, it was all-consuming, which it caught going down the rabbit hole or taken a rat pill. And you’re seeing another cycle of that happen today. Well, that happened to me in 2017. I jumped in and started a company called The Block, which, now, 100 people plus, one of the most reputable, credible media research information data sources in crypto. And at the time, though, it was just created because I couldn’t figure out the first thing. I was, like, “I don’t know what the hell is going on here.” I’d ask a question. Somebody would answer. I’d have 10 more. And I knew it takes a team to understand anything in crypto.
So anyway, I thought I was going to go solve all these problems, answer questions for a broader market of folks. But this being 2018, by the time we raised an early-round capital, a couple of million bucks, we were on a dead-on bear market. Price quickly went from 20k to, like, 3,800 by the end of 2018. And these cycles sort of repeat, so we built through the bear. I ended up selling The Block last year. Made it back to the team. They’re doing an incredible job growing that business. And I kind of was trying to figure out, “Hey, what do I want to do next?” And, well, it’s crypto, and crypto is money, largely, historically, but also, as we look towards what’s coming next, you’d heard this term web3, and I know it’s a controversial term, but it’s this notion that if we sort of rebuild the internet, we’re going to be able to build it in a way where all stakeholders have the ability to have some ownership of the networks they participate in. They’re going to be able to participate in governance, in coordination, and incentivize usage of future networks. We’re really, really early in that journey, but it’s one that excites me. So I wanted to jump in and play a part in building that as both an investor but also as a builder. So sold The Block last year, spent a year working at Paxos on our stablecoin business. Stablecoins are critically important to the future of crypto because we need to get crypto into people’s wallets.
Meb: Explain to listeners what’s Paxos.
Mike: Paxos is a crypto infrastructure-as-a-service company. So they power PayPal’s crypto product. They power Mercado Pago’s. The largest stablecoin issuer in the world. What a stablecoin is, is effectively…it’s a token that’s pegged to the value of something else. Most stablecoins are pegged to the value of dollars, some to the euro. Paxos also has tokens pegged to the value of gold, so commodities. They’re working on tokenized securities, really a broad range of things that are happening. They’re rebuilding the financial infrastructure that sort of is 40, 50 years old, such that, over the next decade, 10 to 20 years, we’re going to move to a much, much better financial infrastructure, where, for example, if you have an exotic possession, you’re not going to have to wait three days to unwind it. While the market goes nukes, you’ll be able to unwind it almost instantaneously.
Meb: So this led you…you sold The Block, and then, what was next?
Mike: I joined Paxos because I wanted to work on two things. So adoption of crypto is my number one thing. I really believe that both as money and tokens, as I mentioned, as ownership and coordination mechanisms for networks and products that we’re going to use in the future are critically important. They’re adjacent use cases, and they work together, but they’re different. Bitcoin, to me, store value. It’s money for payments. Stablecoin, money for payments. Whereas some of the other tokens out there are called the networks of value creation and coordination. So I wanted to work on both. I’d have my cake and eat it too. So I worked full-time at Paxos, getting stablecoins and crypto into people’s wallets. Okay. So we did partnerships with Facebook Novi to get stablecoin into Novi wallet. It’s now available on WhatsApp. So you can actually, in some countries, send stablecoin from the U.S. to another country, which is really important. It’s going to improve remittances, in the long run, to have that be available, but also just getting Bitcoin, Ethereum, and other tokens into PayPal wallet, into Mercado Pago, and a bunch of others. So I think that’s really important.
But that’s just the start. The other thing and the thing that actually really, really, really excites is once those tokens are in a wallet, what do then people do with it? And what can happen is…so today, if you have a PayPal stored balance, stored value balance, this is stuck there. You can only use it with PayPal merchants. You can move it to another person who has a PayPal wallet. Once you have a stablecoin and/or cryptocurrency and a PayPal wallet that is able to be transferred and rides on public blockchains, it opens up a whole new world. I can then move it to a self-custodial wallet, whether that be Rainbow Wallet, or MetaMask, or Phantom on Solana, and I can start using it with decentralized applications. That’s where things start to get really exciting.
So I raised a venture fund called 6th Man Ventures, $7.4-million fund. We invested in companies that are building out that web3 infrastructure and application layer. And then, fast forward 12 months, I moved to an advisor role at Paxos this month, and I raised a second fund with a couple of partners called 6th Man Ventures fund, $225-million fund, to continue to invest in those same things, web3 infrastructure applications and tooling.
Meb: Awesome. All right. So we lead you up till now. You got a bunch of powder and a war chest to go invest. That’s exciting. Why don’t you give us…before we start diving into maybe some specific use cases, walk us through sort of the evolution of this whole web1, web2, web3 sort of discussion. I don’t feel like our listeners…we’ve talked too much on this topic. So why don’t you give us the idiot’s guide to web3? What is it, the overview? And then we’ll branch from there.
Mike: There’s been a lot of talk. Some of the leading voices in sort of web1, web2, web3 are Chris Dixon. Basically, the idea was that web1 was sort of the first stage. This was kind of like the ’90s, and you would basically have a handful of content creators who would primarily be creating the content and then distributing it out, sort of curating and distributing it out to individuals. We had, like, AOL, then you’d log in, and they’d have their portals. And it was kind of like this one way, just like I would read the information that was distributed to me.
Web2, it was more like read and write. So I could basically read information that was transmitted to me. I could also create my own and transmit it back, whether that be Twitter, like a social network where you and I can kind of communicate back and forth with one another, instant messenger, things of that nature. And so it was like read/write.
The third stage, web3, is like read/write/own. So, now, I can read what you write, I can send things back to you. I’m talking in terms of, like, consumer use cases here, not in terms of actually technically what’s happening. But the third piece is we can actually own a piece of that network. So, for example, if my contributions are really significant and people believe that, they could theoretically…the simplest example that people use is they can tip me for my contributions. They can maybe tip me. And you’ve seen Twitter’s added, like, a tip feature. That’s a web2 version of it but a simple one to understand. In the future, that can actually happen automatically where, by contributing to a network, I can actually earn, whether it be tokens or some other thing of value, via my contributions. And then, by earning those, I then have the ability to, for example, let’s say, of ownership, but theoretically, these networks are participatory. And I could sort of vote on the future of the network, and I could put proposals up to be voted on, etc.
So web1, sort of passive. Web2, back and forth, participatory but with centralized intermediaries that could sort of deplatform, censor, you name it. Web3, fully participatory and sort of owned by the community, harder to censor. This is the ultimate vision. We’re not there yet, obviously, with web3.
Meb: I was smiling as you’re talking about this. The trivia question of the first web transactions, so maybe this is web 0.0 in the ’70s with ARPANET, if I’m even pronouncing it right. It was, of course, a student-to-student Stanford-MIT cannabis transaction. So, listeners, if you’re ever at your local pub and this trivia question comes up, that’s the answer. Obviously, it’s some early adopters in the ’70s trading marijuana, as they probably called it then. All right. So this development is in its early stages. It’s exciting, this concept, and we talk a lot about it on this podcast of inclusive capitalist, this ownership sort of economy idea. You mentioned partially that stablecoins may be the currency or a currency in a lot of your prior, previous work. Can we maybe just dig a little deeper there and give an explainer of kind of really what the stablecoin scene is? There’s been a lot in the news about Tether and others. But give it sort of the basics and then the 201 level, 301 level, and we’ll get a little deeper there before we move on.
Mike: Perfect, yeah. So, basically, a stablecoin, as I mentioned, is a token that’s pegged to the value of something else. The most common thing that stablecoins are pegged to today are dollars. Okay. So it’s a token that represents a dollar. And so using that as the framework, and we’ll just stick with dollars, there are basically regulated stablecoins, stablecoins that have primary regulators who oversee them and basically audit the mechanisms of how those stablecoins work, and those ones are fully sort of KYC-AML. So you know the person who’s actually acquiring the stablecoin on the way in. Okay. So you can’t be issued a new stablecoin unless you’ve gone through a know-your-customer anti-money laundering process. So those ones are called, like, fiat stablecoins. They’re issued by companies that are regulated by primary regulators like Paxos, like Gemini, and then some that are licensed, that have money transmitter licenses, like Circle, who issues USDC. Then there are sort of slightly less regulated ones in the sort of grey zone, you mentioned Tether, where there’s not really a primary regulator. They’re perceived as safe enough for many institutional investors, but I would say that the market is probably saying they’re not perceived as safe enough for the average retail user. And so that’s the sort of, like, fiat-backed stablecoin landscape. So you’ve got the highly regulated, licensed, and then the sort of maybe a little bit at the grey area.
Next, you have…you move towards decentralized stablecoins that aren’t KYC-AML fiat on-ramp. And that’s things like Maker, like DAI makers. Maker Dai would be the primary example of that. Those are typically over-collateralized. So I would have to deposit a cryptocurrency well above the amount of stablecoin that I want to bring out so that I have collateral backing, the stablecoin that’s being issued to me.
And then the last grouping is algorithmic stablecoins, and those ones, basically, have some sort of mathematical model that tries to hold them to a peg through a variety of exotic mechanisms, basically, and typically have a paired token that goes with the stablecoin that can kind of be bought or sold by speculators to keep the stablecoin within a stable peg range. There are millions of models of those, and we won’t go too deep on this call because we’d be on the call for hours. There’s a ton of people and projects experimenting with algorithmic stablecoins, and there’s not a great history of those stablecoins maintaining their pegs for a perpetual duration of time. But we’ll see folks continue to try, and I hope their success there. And the reason that I hope their success is that having a stable dollar is critical to onboarding people to crypto, because if you’re going to have crypto applications that people are going to use, if the only currency to use those applications is a highly volatile cryptocurrency, it’s going to thwart adoption of web3 applications. You actually need to have a stable currency that people can sit in when they don’t want to speculate but they purely want to basically put money in to use a play-to-earn game or to use a web3 application.
So you can imagine, a couple of years down the road, you’ll have a wallet that’ll have some Bitcoin, some Ethereum, and then some stablecoin in it, and the stablecoin should be that thing that you can kind of be confident will always exist if you want to use a web3 application, and at the time that you want to use the application, you could swap your stablecoin into the currency of the application that you want to use takes.
Meb: So, listeners listening in, if you were to look out on the horizon, 2022, 2023, 2025, where do you kind of see the stablecoin landscape moving, adopting, shifting? If you could just put on a prediction hat or just say, how does this sort of shake out in the next couple of years if you could guess?
Mike: So if I were to guess, we’re going to see a massive growth in stablecoin issuance and circulation. And one thing to remember is, I mentioned KYC-AML, the KYC-AML, those tests happen at the on- and off-ramp stages, but in the middle, certainly, a regulated stablecoin, you could freeze stablecoins if they’re in custodial wallets. Like, if they’re sitting in a Coinbase exchange, you could freeze a stablecoin. It can be harder to do once they’re out in public wallets. But a lot of the stablecoin issuers do actually have the ability to freeze their stablecoin regardless of where it sits. So that’s a risk, and that’s a risk that many people point out about this, like, truly decentralized web3 that many of us aspire to have exist. So I think it’s important that you’re going to continue to see over-collateralized, as well as under-collateralized and algorithmic, stablecoins explode in terms of the number of teams trying to work on them so that we have censorship-resistant stable dollars. But both are going to grow, and for non-web3 use cases, for just basic payments, regulated stablecoins are phenomenal.
You saw Stripe is building up a team that will enable in the not too distant future global, for example, payouts in stablecoin. That’s really exciting. There are a number of different countries today where, if I’m using, for example, Medium, or if I’m using Lyft, or if I’m using some service that Stripe powers the payments for, in many countries, it’s difficult for me to get paid out, whereas stablecoins can be accepted globally by a recipient. You then, obviously, have the last mile issue of, “Well, how do I cash it out to local currency?” But there are a ton of really interesting companies working on that. And in addition, if we build enough really interesting web3 applications, and if there’s a big enough economy, you’ll actually be able to keep your money in this economy that’s non-fiat related.
Meb: Do you think this eventually settles down similar to fiat where there’s a handful of currencies that represent the largest share of the market? Do you think it’s going to be something where there’s just dozens, hundreds, thousands? And if so, you got any early predictions?
Mike: Yeah, there’s going to be hundreds. There’s going to be thousands, is my guess, that the majority will be completely irrelevant. They’ll start, they’ll die, particularly on the algorithmic side and on the decentralized side. And even, by the way, on the highly regulated side, there are network effects to a commonly accepted currency. And the main reason is…so they are used today by institution stablecoins and DeFi to do borrow/lend functions, to institutions holding money. And basically, the liquidity of the largest stablecoins is important. We’re not going to move to a world where there’s, in my opinion, 25, call it, privately issued monies, stablecoins that are used broadly. It probably nets out sub-10.
Meb: Are there some ideal features that are missing?
Mike: U.S. regulatory clarity. And the biggest one is U.S. regulatory clarity on things that would make stablecoins more attractive than, again, just a stored value balance. So for example, the things that, like, a neobank would be looking for if I’m a neobank. Even if I’m a PayPal, for me, as a business, like, just a dollar balance works fine. Where stablecoins start to become interesting and as business model is, one, if interest rates up. So today, interest rates are close to zero, so stablecoins aren’t that attractive from, like, a business model perspective for the folks who might issue them. Two, you’ve seen sort of the SEC and other organizations look at folks, like BlockFi and, I believe, Celsius, and others who have offered yield products based on stablecoins, and they’re investigating them.
And so there’s not been much proactive rule making. There’s been a little bit more of making policy through litigation. By the way, I’m not saying that’s the wrong approach. I’m just saying the lack of clarity there is probably retarding the growth of stablecoins a bit. And then you have multiple different regulatory regimes and regulators. So again, Circle has money transmitter licenses, has a FINRA approval, but doesn’t have a primary regulator and doesn’t have national banking charter, whereas Paxos and Gemini do. So it’s just a lot of murkiness regulatory-wise.
Meb: And I assume the current state of affairs is that these aren’t insured in a traditional FDIC/SIPC?
Mike: No, but they’re fully backed, and I know we hear a lot of FUD from folks who are, like, “Well, it’s a private company,” but, like, for example, Paxos, every single dollar that’s been issued is backed one-to-one by dollar at a bank that faces the Fed. So it can’t get more, in my mind, sort of secure and backed than that. That’s more banking…it’s different than a bank dollar, and those are sort of guaranteed by the government in many ways. But this is 100% backed stablecoin I don’t view as risky.
Meb: We got a couple more acronyms. I feel like we could spend the entire hour on defining the jargon, the state of affairs. But I really want to get into some interesting projects, NFTs, DAOs. What do you want to tackle next?
Mike: I mean, why don’t we start with NFTs? NFTs, non-fungible tokens. Hey, maybe not the best name to, like, actually explain why these things are innovative and interesting, but basically, if you think of Bitcoin or Ethereum as fungible tokens and similar to dollars where one Bitcoin…if I have a Bitcoin and you have one, and we exchange them, they’re perfectly fungible for one another. And NFT is a non-fungible token. It’s unique. So basically, the first use cases that have arisen for non-fungible tokens have been things where I want to keep something scarce and provable of its provenance, like, where it was created, who created it, and it’s on-chain, and that I own it, who owns it, and have a transparent on-chain record of that ownership.
So two of the first projects that arose to prominence in 2017, 2018 were CryptoKitties, which came out of Dapper Labs, who has now done NBA Top Shot and many other things, and Larva Labs released CryptoPunks, which have, again, received a lot of prominence this year and are sort of the cult early favorite NFT. There was Pepes, RarePepes on Bitcoin earlier than that. But people have been experimenting with non-fungible tokens for a number of years. They came to great popularity late 2020 and last year. The thing that’s really cool about NFTs…I mean, basically, they open up a global market for the exchange of collectables, of art, of eventually gaming assets, and things of that nature. Those have been the most popular to date, examples of how people are using NFTs, but they’re just the earliest.
But the cool thing is you’ve gone from an art world that was closed, honestly, a trading hard world that was closed to one that’s global, accessible. And more than just the tokens themselves, the tokens have inspired communities that are just spending a tremendous amount of time now and have found really common things that they identify with. And again, it’s not different than “Hey, I’m a fan of the New York Jets,” and other people are too, but it’s just a novel and new way, particularly at a time when we’ve been spending so much time at home. These online communities have emerged around different NFT collections. So there have been collections, things like, as I said, CryptoPunks, Bored Ape Yacht Club, and others. But you also have the ability now where artists can sell individual one-on-one generative art and/or people with his original direct art that anybody anywhere can buy, can transfer. So people found that exciting.
That’s just the first use case of a non-fungible token. They can be used for many, many, many other things. We invest in a company called Proof of Attendance Protocol. You can give somebody an NFT that proves that they were at an event. You can give somebody an NFT that proves for taking an action online. “Hey, Mike Dudas lent somebody $1,000 on Aave, therefore, he gets an NFT to show that.” So you can give NFTs based on on-chain or other activity. And what happens over time is we’ll move beyond NFTs as just like collectables, art, by the way, which I think are extremely powerful use cases, to, basically, things that show actual resume implications, things like identity. And so we’ll go beyond that. And then, additionally, you can use them as marketing techniques. “Hey, somebody can get an NFT for they did X, Y, Z. We want to airdrop this to them and have them notice things.” That, obviously, can get spammy, and there’s a fine line there. But yeah, these tokens are really, really exciting and that they’re unique. They’re transferrable. They’re easy to store. You can take them with you. That’s been fun and exciting.
Meb: It’s been fun to watch, on the NFT, people get really creative, some of these sort of membership ITS. We’ve seen Kevin Rose and Gary Vee introduce some kind of curious and fun ideas.
Mike: Yeah, we just did one as well called LinksDAO.
Meb: This is exciting. Let’s dig into this one.
Mike: Yeah. So this was inspired by a mixture. So it mixes NFTs with DAOs in a way, so we’ll transition to DAO. So basically, we were looking at Gary Vaynerchuk has done two projects that I think are really interesting, one called VeeFriends where you purchase an NFT and it gives you token-gated access to Gary’s world, which includes a couple of physical events that he’s going to hold over the next few years, so sort of token gated access. It’s ticketing, effectively. That’s transferrable, or I can use it myself. And he’s done other things. But the next idea that I noticed was this Flyfish Club that Gary’s doing. So Rao’s is a very exclusive restaurant here in New York that is sort of quasi-membership only. Gary and a team took that concept, I believe. I don’t know if that was the exact inspiration, but effectively sold an NFT which gives you the right…you’re basically part of a membership club and gives you the right to make reservations at the restaurant, which I think is really interesting. You can lease that NFT out to somebody. So if I own it, but you want to go, I can lease it to you for a period of time so that you can make a reservation. It’s kind of a cool concept.
But basically, we tried to pair that…at the same time, there was something called the ConstitutionDAO. So DAOs are decentralized autonomous organizations. In their purest form, they’re decentralized. There’s not a centralized person or set of people making decisions. They are governed by the entirety of the folks who are participating in the DAO, meaning, the decentralized autonomous, again, no centralized factor. And then organizations, because, typically, they’re trying to organize to do something. So an example of that recently was the ConstitutionDAO where a bunch of folks banded together, and everybody contributed some ETH, Ethereum, Ether, to try to buy the constitution. And it was just a group that sort of self-organized around doing that. They didn’t have a great plan around what they’re going to do with it if they actually won. Because they broadcast how much money they were raising, they were outbid by Ken Griffin, who is a shark.
Meb: That has to be the all-time, like, Darth Vader move of Ken Griffin. I mean, good for him. I don’t know how much of it’s trolling and how much of it he wanted to have the constitution, although I saw he’s going to lease it to one of the nicest museums I’ve ever been to. It was in Arkansas, Bentonville, I think, which is where it’s going. Pretty awesome space. But I was going to tweet the other day. I forgot about it. I was like, “What could Ken Griffin do in the rest of 2020 to really tweak the most amount of people?” I saw they just did some liquidity with Sequoia.
Mike: Not only Sequoia, but Paradigm, who is the absolute largest, along with a16z crypto, VC, and the crypto space. I mean, this man, order flow from Robinhood, crypto order flow, buys the constitution and now market making with the largest crypto hedge fund in the world, one of the largest. He’s certainly winning.
Meb: I don’t know who he is in this scenario. Is he the emperor? Is he Darth Vader? It’s complicated. It’s funny. All right. So that didn’t work out because Darth buys the constitution.
Mike: Transparent, on the blockchain. Yeah, exactly. So you knew exactly what they were going to raise and what they could bid. What we’re working on with LinksDAO is bringing the concepts together of those two things, which is an NFT that is…ostensibly, it’s a collectable. So it doesn’t give you ownership of the course.
Meb: Well, explain what it is. It’s a dolphin.
Mike: Oh, yeah. So LinksDAO, basically, the goal is, as an entity, that LinksDAO will create one of the world’s foremost golf and leisure clubs. There’s a corporation, LinksDAO, Inc., that will effectively acquire, operate, manage property, and manage the brand. Separately, there is a group of folks who have purchased NFTs that we sold as LinksDAO, Inc. Those folks, basically, have the ability, so they get perks in the form of, like, there’s some really interesting partnerships from folks like Five Iron Golf and a host of other amazing brands. We’ve had the largest companies in the world come in who want to offer tee times and discounts.
Basically, the NFT, it’s like a collectable that makes you part of this community. This community then has the ability. The NFT gives you governance rights, so you get to sort of vote on operating committees. The committees will do things like sales and marketing, partnerships. Perhaps, they’ll be able to create grants. So people could create, like, an online fantasy golf league or a metaverse golf product. But basically, that community is, again, self-governing and can do really, really cool and interesting things, can propose things via their ownership of the NFT, and then vote in proportion to how many NFTs they hold or how many votes the NFT they hold gives them. There are two classes of NFT. One gives one vote. One gives four votes.
In addition, should the physical club, should the corporation ultimately deliver on buying and acquiring a physical club, the holders will have the ability to purchase the membership in that physical club, the holders of the NFTs. Those NFT holders, in the meantime, will be able to set a large portion of sort of the club rules. And the goal here is inclusivity. So the thematic idea here is that golf has historically been closed off, maybe even historically, like, elements of racism in many parts of the world. It’s been insular, expensive, and not open to a majority of folks. This is a grand experiment to change that. So the DAO and the NFT holders will have the ability to create, for example, a governance scenario where you could have membership tiers that are inclusive, maybe some don’t have golf course rights but rights to visit the club if I’m not a golfer. Over time, we could expand to multiple sites.
So anyway, really early and it’s a month old, and we’re using some concepts like DAO, DAO governance, how that relates to a separate entity that is actually operating and managing a physical asset. Brand new territory. But it’s really exciting. I’ve never seen a community grow like this overnight in anything I’ve done. We have 15,000 people on the Discord in under a month. We have over 5,000 NFT holders who are able to contribute to governance, contribute ideas. And literally, like Steph Curry won the other day. We’ve got inbound from PGA Tour professionals, and you name it. So we think we have the ability to change the game.
Meb: What do original memberships go for?
Mike: Yeah. So they sold for, I think, 2.1 ETH for what we call leisure memberships, which one governance vote, one membership ability to purchase should we acquire and build out a course, and then the ability to participate in the community, members-only Discord, all those sorts of things, and then 0.72 for what we call global, which gives you slightly larger governance rights and the ability to a family membership, or two memberships if you want.
Meb: So what is that like, 2, 3 grand?
Mike: Yeah, 0.1 ETH at the time is something like 700, 750 bucks, and 0.72, yeah, to your point, is close to 2,500 or close to 3,000. Now, I think the price today, as of, like, Wednesday, on the lower ones, it’s above 0.75. It was, like, close to 1 yesterday. We don’t follow price on any other ones, or they were anywhere between 2 and 2.5 over the last few days. But effectively, our goal is, so basically, to have the community go out and collectively deliver great benefits to one another, and then we’d like to deliver as well to the extent we can.
Meb: And so the way to view this initial money, I assume this is sort of, like, operating capital to, like, get the ship moving.
Mike: Yeah. For the DAO, where effectively they get to, for the most part, approve how a significant amount of it is spent in terms of who they choose to run specific committees.
Meb: But then your ultimate goal is to go actually buy a course. Is that right?
Mike: Yeah. And for that, you would need a separate fundraise, likely from…we’d love to include not the credit investors but likely accredited investors who basically have a different risk profile because they are actually acquiring a physical asset.
Meb: What’s a course go for? What’s the range that you would be looking at?
Mike: On the low end, it could be a couple of million, but our stated goal is, like, we want to buy a “top 100 golf course in the world.” So it just depends on where it is. It depends on if it’s a fixer-upper or fully fleshed. But it can run anywhere from 5 to 50 million or more. So I think it just depends on what the group collectively thinks is the right first step there and then what we can actually execute on as a corporation.
Meb: What’s the time horizon on this? All right. So, is this 2022? Is this 2024?
Mike: The goal would be by 2023 that we have people able to participate at the physical club. It’d be a dream if we could do it sooner, but one of the things is just working through how the DAO interacts with the corporation, working through legal and regulatory issues. This is, like, brand new frontier stuff. And by the way, that’s why it’s so exciting to people and why people have been so enthused to be part of a community that they can directly participate in, but at the same time, it means that, once you’re in that position, have all that excitement and have folks looking at you, you have to ensure that the next steps are done in a really prudent way.
Meb: That’s exciting. This is fun. I wish I had bought one. Where is the secondary liquidity, OpenSea?
Mike: Yeah. Today, OpenSea, Rarible are the two…because it’s an Ethereum-based NFT, yeah. So Rarible and OpenSea.
Meb: I’m going to add it to my list. I keep waiting for a nice, big, fat equity bear market to generate some opportunities, but it just never seems to happen. I keep waiting and waiting.
Mike: Right? It’s going to be 2040.
Meb: I’m going to be a full boomer by the time that happens. Did you say you’re a Jets fan earlier?
Mike: Unfortunately, yes.
Meb: Okay. Well, I’m a Broncos fan, so we’re both, I would like to think, on the upswing. We’ll see. Can’t go much further down, but.
Mike: Yeah. We’re, like, five years down, so.
Meb: There’s some room for optimism. But put on your thinking hat. What’s the likelihood of starting to see, and you guys are kind of the trailblazers here, but this concept really gaining some steam where, all of a sudden, you’re starting to see some of these groups come together and purchase some actual, maybe not a couple of million, but adding some commas to these ideas? I think it’s harder in the NFL because of all the rules and regulations. But particularly with the sports community, that seems like a big, obvious target.
Mike: So I think it’s going to happen. There’s a group called WAGMI, We’re All Gonna Make It, United, who’s planning to purchase, I think, a League One or Championship League football team in the U.K. Tiger Global backed them, as well as a bunch of other professional investors. And so there are folks that are doing this. It’s going to happen. I think, to your point, the NFL is the hardest to achieve based on the rules that they have. All of the U.S. leagues, MLB, etc., just the approvals that you have to go through. I wouldn’t be surprised, though, like, if Gary Vaynerchuk, who is a massive Jets fan and says he’s going to own it one day, if he did it. I wouldn’t be surprised to see an effort to do it, I haven’t spoken with him about it, but to do it in that sort of a manner where you have a group of folks…again, I don’t know if that’s a DAO, but it could be a collective group of folks who go out and purchase something.
But one thing to be clear of, a DAO in its purest form, as I mentioned, is a decentralized autonomous organization. There are a number, including LinksDAO, when I’m talking about, there are a number of entities that aspire to that level of decentralization over time but don’t have it at the outset. And so I think that’s probably the majority of the DAOs in crypto, even, like, the DeFi ones, decentralized finance ones, where you still have heavy concentration of voting amongst a relatively small number of folks, and/or there’s just not a lot of places today where it’s easy outside of just pure investment clubs to set up functional DAOs that are actually governing and building, like, real, tangible things.
Meb: Yeah. It seems like the big challenge there too is getting all the requirements and expectations set ahead of time where, all of a sudden, the last thing you want is to have some of these communities implode because the structure was not clearly defined or what people expected. I’ve put 1,000 bucks into the WAGMI just to watch it. It’s like an old school stock investor, buying one share just to get the annual report, just because I think it’s cool and interesting. But you would think that, like…and I feel like the NBA seems to be pretty cutting edge on trying to be innovative and curious about…Top Shot is a great example, this world. So it’ll be fun to see if it actually ever bubbles its way up through the…whether it’s the minor leagues, or Europe, or whatever it may be, into some of the big dudes. I wouldn’t be surprised in the next couple of years.
Mike: Yeah. And people have started to try to do a bit of this. Like, a friend of mine, Al Tylis, owns a Mexican league, I don’t know what the league is called, League One or Liga football team, and sold an NFT that gave, I think, 1% or some amount ownership in the club by NFT. So people are experimenting with that, and it’s going to happen. And it makes sense. You just think about all of this. It’s like any other asset class that’s being tokenized. If I’m to go back to Paxos, Paxos believes that the majority of the world’s assets will be tokenized over the next 10 to 20 years. And I believe that deeply. It makes sense. It makes the transfer of ownership easier, the visibility into it significantly better, and I see no reason why we’re going to turn back.
Meb: Well, the Broncos ownership is probably changing hands, and so the other Darth Vader. So if Ken is Darth, maybe Bezos is the emperor. So he’s reported to be interested in the Broncos…
Mike: Oh, fun.
Meb: …as is every other billionaire, but.
Mike: Yeah. I mean, look, as a Mets fan, I was delighted that Stevie Cohen purchased them, and it’s so far, so good.
Meb: Until he got run off Twitter by all the other Mets fans.
Mike: I know. But then he’s got some money and seems like the natives are happy again.
Meb: It’s interesting because there has been some publicly traded ownership of some sports teams, and then there are some other even weirder…was it Green Bay that just offers some sort of, like, it’s not even ownership, it’s just some sort of, like, donation-based certificate or something?
Mike: Effectively. It’s, like, you’re “owner,” but yeah, it’s effectively a souvenir. And there’s other interesting things like selling seat licenses, like a PSL, personal seat license. And there’s some interesting things there about whether those are transferable or nontransferable to others. That’s like, again, buying into a club. It’s effectively what LinksDAO, what we offered, which is you’re purchasing a collectible, and it has…the collectable, should we be able to collectively deliver on some really interesting mission-driven things that we want to do in terms of creating the world’s greatest golf and leisure club and making it inclusive, is going to have benefits far beyond just a pure collectable for all of us.
Meb: Let’s talk about your funds. You’ve got two. What’s their focus? Are you seed, or are you kind of Series A? Is that even the right description? What are you looking for, and what are you investing in?
Mike: We finished investing out of our first fund, and the second fund is the same exact theme, just upsizing. The size of the fund, 125 million, which in crypto, today, with the Paradigms and the a16zs raising multi-billion-dollar funds, you could look at it as “Hey, it’s a fund for ants,” but in traditional VC, people are, like, “Oh, wow, that’s a really big fund.” We think it’s perfectly sized to invest in what you just talked about. So if you were thinking in traditional terms, it would be pre-seed to A. In crypto, though, you’d typically have, like, a pre-seed, some sort of a small round, then you’ll have, like, a seed round. They’re a mixture of often equity or SAFTs, so simple agreement for future tokens, or equity with token warrants. But effectively, what we’re looking for is token ownership. We believe that web3, the whole point of it, is that there’s collective ownership, coordination, and incentivization via tokens and that those will be the things of value. So we want to own those.
What’s interesting also about crypto is there are typically fewer rounds before a company offers something to the public. So a public token sale typically happens fairly early in the life cycle of most projects. So instead of having in 8 to 10 years before there’s an IPO and then having only, like, private secondary available, and the public can’t buy a company until it’s 10 years old, in crypto, you can actually get access to these projects and protocols much, much more quickly. What that means is, for early investors, there’s less theoretically dilution and the initial ownership that you need to seek out in these rounds is perhaps smaller than you would where you would, in the past, try and own 15% of a company at the beginning, because you’re going to have 5 rounds of dilution before they went public 10 years later. That’s not happening today.
So what you’re seeing is that sort of compression in terms of time to public offering. You’re also seeing rounds with more investors, so larger syndicates in crypto, than you see in traditional venture capital. And so an example would be you might have a round with a liquidity provider, somebody like a Jump, or an Alameda, or a Three Arrows Capital sort of provide liquidity for your token. And once it ultimately goes live, among other benefits, you might have crypto native funds, either the large ones or specialist funds, like Paradigm, a16z crypto, Multicoin, Framework, Variant, ours, 6th Man Ventures, but you’ll have some crypto specialists. Then you’ll have some folks who are great at tokenomics, Republic Crypto, Delphi Digital, and others. And then you’ll have angels who have really specific areas of expertise, some might be great at PR and communications, some might be great at marketing, some might be great at tokenomics. But you want to have a group of folks around the table, and I’ve never seen this in traditional tech. Traditional tech, it was, like, when I was raising venture capital and leading companies, you would have your board meeting every six to eight weeks, and you’d have conversations in between, but it was a little more asynchronous.
Now, what you have is these projects have Telegram groups and the investors are all in the groups communicating in real-time together with the entrepreneurs and with each other to really move the projects forward. So it’s really exciting. The pace of how these entities grow is just wild. I’ve never seen anything like it. And most folks who are “VCs,” I know there’s been a lot of talk about VCs being predatory in crypto, from what I can tell and from talking to entrepreneurs, you’ve got the opposite. They’re way more hands-on than in traditional VC. We’re also seeing traditional VCs come into the space, and that’s interesting. Some have credible, passionate interests, and some feel like tourists.
Meb: Tell me a little bit about either any of the companies doing cool shit that you invested in. Also, like, what are you looking for that you haven’t funded? What are some ideas that you’re ready to put to work?
Mike: We’ve invested in some projects…it’s so funny because they’re not all companies. We invested last year in over 65 projects, an average of 100k check, and wanted sort of broad exposure to web3 infrastructure and applications. And it really, really ranged. But I mentioned POAP, Proof of Attendance Protocol. That’s one that’s just so fun and I think will be really, really a critical piece of infrastructure but also consumer-facing, which is your passport of, like, where you’ve been and what you’ve done. So that’s one really cool thing, these NFTs that kind of show your resume, participation, and authenticity in the space.
Rainbow Wallet is one that we’re extremely proud to be involved in. I think it’s probably the single best crypto self-custody wallet in the world. Just beautiful, elegant design, easy to use, incredible team that’s building at breakneck pace. We invested in Etherscan, which is the base level, like, data and information source for the Ethereum blockchain, as well as others, like BSC chain, and it’s basically how you can kind of see transparently what individual addresses own, how they’re behaving, how they’re voting, what they’re doing on-chain. So that’s critical infrastructure.
We’ve gotten pretty heavy into Solana over the past few months. We’ve done a tremendous number of investment in Solana, one called Metaplex, which is sort of the underlying infrastructure for gaming and NFTs. We did Magic Eden, which is the leading NFT marketplace in Solana. We did Solanalysis, which is a great data and analytics product in the Solana ecosystem. We did Orca, which is the most consumer-friendly AMM/DEX, decentralized exchange, on Solana. So really, really bullish on the Solana ecosystem. We’ve done some really fun stuff in DAO.
Meb: How come, by the way? Like, what’s the thesis there?
Mike: Yeah. So the thesis in Solana, it’s a layer one blockchain that has significantly higher throughput than other blockchains but with a credible level of decentralization and security. Now, you’ll hear some folks argue that that’s not the case, but we believe that it is, and the developers that we’ve backed believe it is, and the consumers are actually showing up and using these applications. So it seems pretty clear that people believe Solana is a place that you can build on and that people use it. One of the most interesting companies we’ve backed recently is called BetDEX. Its chairman is Nigel Eccles, who is the founder of FanDuel. It’s basically a protocol to support and enable peer-to-peer wagering and gaming on Solana. So really, really excited about that one as well.
Meb: It’s exciting space. As you look out on the horizon, what’s next for 6th Man? Is this falling, gets deployed, and how long? Where are you guys in that process?
Mike: We already have five deals warehoused. We’re closing the fund this week. And so it’s just super exciting. At the pace that…we’re a little more indexed than some of the concentrated funds because we’re not leading as many rounds, and I think that’s a model you’re going to see more and more of in crypto where there’s these syndicates with specialists. Our specialization, again, being building communities, PR, marketing, BD, and really supporting teams with go-to-market. The areas that we’re planning to invest…so over to your question, three years is probably going to be our investment horizon, maybe two and a half, two and a half to three years.
Three big buckets within “web3.” One is metaverse and gaming. So metaverse, the biggest thing that’s sort of broken out, will be Decentraland and Sandbox. We’ll be looking for opportunities, other opportunities like that. But also things that would exist within that world, so things like your avatars and the skins that you might wear, and things of that nature, as you move through these virtual worlds. The next is, like, play-to-earn gaming. We’ve backed some play-to-earn gaming companies. Axie Infinity is the largest breakout example there. There are gaming guilds, Yield Guild Games, where they have a group of folks who actually play these games, and they help fund them so they can earn incomes in the game. So we’re looking at areas like that. So that’s sort of metaverse and gaming.
The next is web3 networks and DAOs, either consumer or business facing DAOs, but new organizational structures to do things. So one that we backed is called LeagueDAO, and it’s tokenized decentralized fantasy sports. And so we’re really excited about that business, and we’d like to do more of that sort of thing. With web3 networks, we haven’t done a ton yet, but we would expect to see some really, really interesting, call it, web3 social networks. The one that’s sort of out there and most popularly that you’ve heard of is, like, BitClout or DeSo. We didn’t invest in that, but I think you’re going to see iterations on the broad concept that are more practical moving forward. So we’re excited about that. And then the big sort of joke would be the web3 Uber or the web3 Airbnb, and while they’re a joke, I think at some point, those things will exist where you’re incentivizing drivers and incentivizing riders via some really compelling and interesting token economics.
The last bucket is the tooling and infrastructure and DeFi primitives to support that. So an example of that would be, “Hey, I own $5 million worth of NFTs. They’re not super liquid, and I want to hold them for the long term. But I want some liquidity for them.” So an NFT borrow/lend protocol would be the type of thing, like, a DeFi primitive that we would invest in. The other thing would be custody infrastructure. People are not ready. You’ve seen all the sort of jokes on Twitter about Bored Ape Yacht Club owners just give away their Bored Apes to social engineering hacks nonstop. I don’t know that that’s going to change because I don’t think people really understand self-custody and the attack vector. So I think we’re going to be looking for companies, projects, protocols that provide, I think, like, a layer of security and/or understanding that will make it easier for people to secure their assets. And frankly, even if it’s custodial, we would look at options like that.
Meb: That’s a lot, man. I should have booked you for two hours. Mike, this has been a whirlwind tour. Anything we didn’t cover? I mean, there’s a lot that we could go deeper on. But anything where you’re, like, excited about, nervous about, it’s on your brain, keeping you up at night, your dream company you want to fund, you haven’t seen yet. Anything else?
Mike: I think the biggest thing that I want to see in 2022 and, like, my dream is that we move a little bit more away from speculation and what the price is doing and that we really encourage builders to get in and build on these new networks, these new underlying layer one protocols, things like Solana, Avalanche, Ethereum, ETH Layer 2. And so one thing that I’ll say is I’ve been a little bit disappointed by some of the really public comments from, like, Elon Musk and Jack Dorsey, and some other really prominent folks, even like the Aaron Levies of the world, who are effectively saying, like, “Web3 is not solving a problem. It’s just worse off.” And, like, sure, web3 today is not living on the ultimate promise. Sure, there are tradeoffs. We know that the throughput is lower, that the architecture is different and has tradeoffs. But I believe that the goal of decentralization and collective ownership is extremely noble and critically important in an increasingly authoritarian and centralized and deplatforming world.
So I really would love it if these folks would stop with the really strong…and not all the folks I just mentioned are doing this, but a lot of folks are pretty active about discouraging curious people from working on web3 and projects in the space, and they’re really influential. I think that that’s foolhardy. And basically, anytime you call things that aren’t the thing that you love scammy in a blanket way, I think it’s extremely irresponsible. I think everybody is cognizant that there are scammers in the space, there are bad actors. But overall, the number of good people working to build great things and the results that have been shown were making really good progress relentlessly over the past only 12 years. It’s only been 12 years, and Ethereum didn’t even exist till 2014, so call it 7, 8 years. I mean, it’s just remarkable what’s been created today in less than a decade. Optimism over unreasonable skepticism is really what I think is critically important.
Meb: Yeah. Sometimes crypto community can seem like its own worst enemy at times despite having probably shared interests and incentives. Mike, this has been a lot of fun, super interesting. I could listen to you talk for another hour. I’m excited in 2035 when the Broncos DAO plays the Jets DAO for the AFC championship.
Mike: It’ll be in Florida maybe, and we’ll play the LinksDAO golf course.
Meb: Is that your, probably, target state? Is that identified?
Mike: It’s too early to say. Yeah, we need the community to really contribute and weigh in on that.
Meb: I envision this eventually almost could probably be an entire, global membership sort of concept. That’d be super fun. I’m a cheap bastard is my problem, so the prospect of trying to pick up a membership on OpenSea above face value, whatever that was. Although Ether has gone down, though, so I imagine it may…in fiat, it may be…
Mike: Yeah, your fiat price might not be too bad.
Meb: All right, I’ll check it out. People want to information, where do they go? Check out what you guys are up to, what’s the right spot?
Mike: My sort of public home base is Twitter. Just @mdudas on Twitter. My DMs are open, and I tend to just kind of, like, route folks to the right place from there.
Meb: Oh, boy. You asked for it. Podcast listeners, be thoughtful before you start hammering Mike with questions. And for the fund, what’s the best website or place to go?
Mike: It is 6thman.ventures.
Meb: Awesome. Mike, it’s been a blast, man. I really appreciate you joining us today.
Mike: Thank you. Really appreciate it, Meb.
Meb: Podcast listeners, we’ll post show notes to today’s conversation at mebfaber.com/podcast. If you love the show, if you hate it, shoot us a message at email@example.com. We love to read the reviews. Please review us on iTunes and subscribe to the show anywhere good podcasts are found. Thanks for listening, friends, and good investing.